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Johnny Depp - Pirate Youpla Boum!

Johnny Depp is the strange one in his genre. First of all because he laughs at Hollywood, next because he refuses to be stereotyped. After having been a clumsy director (Ed Wood), a coke dealer (Blow) and a dark detective (From Hell), he now plays a pirate with dreadlocks in 'Pirates of the Caribbean', by Gore Verbinski. That sounds promising…. (By Sandra Benedetti)

Ciné Live: Which place do pirates take in your childhood memories?
Johnny Depp: A big place. I think my oldest memory is from when I was 5 or 6 years old. I had an album with an audio cassette from a movie called 'The ghost of Black Beard', with Peter Ustinow. He played Black Beard: his wife, who was a witch, put a curse on him and he was condemned to being a ghost. It was a comedy made by Robert Stevenson, but I only had it on cassette. I listened to it that much that I knew every word of it. I didn't know the movie before we made Pirates of the Caribbean. It has had it's time. That one was really my favorite. Or else, like every kid, I have seen 'Captain Blood'. When you're a kid, you're fascinated by pirates, the bad guys, the monsters, Dracula, Frankenstein, that kind of things.

What fascinates you so much when it comes to pirates?
The fascinate me because of the life they live, the form of freedom they have acquired, they are renegades that live exactly like they want to, they sail the sees and do everything they want to do. It's the romantic image that you have when you're a child. It's only later in life, when you start reading historical books in the subject, that you discover that they had a terrible life, that it was very hard for them. The biggest part of them, if they had the luck to survive their injuries, from fights or obtained in prison, finished their lives as tramps, tormented by diseases.

It seems as if you read a lot of historical books, because you feel related to the past. Where does that come from?
When I was younger, even when I was a child, I quickly understood that life was better in the past. Everything was a lot simpler and there was a lot more innocence. At least, innocence was still possible. There was some kind of purity in the centuries before ours. You know, I grew up in the sixties-seventies, I have seen how technology has progressed and the progression has destroyed humanity. I was born in 1963. When I was 5 years old, I saw the Vietnam war in the television, I saw the children that ran down the streets, the havoc of the war…. That war changed everything, the mentality, the whole century…. And I come from Kentucky, where everybody wears a suit with a tie and very short hair. When we moved to Florida, it was strange for me: men with long hair, girls in tiny bikinis, are even naked. I said to myself: "Wow, this is strange". I was confused, it was a different world. All of that affected the rest of my life and my view of the world.

And what is it that you like about the 18th century, the time in which Pirates of the Caribbean is situated?
It's like a child's dream. When you are little, you want to live the great adventures like the people did in that period. The 18th century resembles a story by Jack London. It was a century when there were still a lot of unknown things, you could discover the world, take a boat and experience things without a boss telling you what to do. In that century, life was basic: it was either survive or die. You had to shape your own life and make something of it.

Listening to you, one would say that you take a role, because you want to find the child inside yourself…
Yes, I can't avoid it (he laughs), I can't escape it, it's stronger than me, it's a part of me. I would like to stop when I can't get there. It's connected with the imagination and imagination never leaves me: I dream during the day, and I dream at night. I've always been a bit strange because of that… well, not really strange, but… When I was little, I was obsessed with people, characters or historical figures. I used those obsessions till the end, till I got sick of them, just until I had explored all the possibilities, all the situations. The same goes for my music. When I started to play the guitar, I was 12 years old then, I became totally obsessed, I locked myself up for a year or two, until I could play it right.

Do you also do that when you are getting into a character for a movie?
Oh yeah, I can get obsessed by a part quite easily. When I get to the stage where I know the character that good that it becomes a second nature, I just have to snap my fingers and it will be there. But I don't believe in those trics that some actors say: "I have become the character". No, no, I don't believe it for a second. It's a lie. But you can get to the stage, that you know a character that well, that, even though he's very different from you, you start to react to certain situations in a way that isn't like you. That happens when you get under the skin of a character that you really love, that you feel comfortable with. There have been some like that that have given me an impression of safety.

Which ones?
Edward in Edward Scissorhands, for example. I remember that I felt confident, safe in his skin. It was genius to have the authority to show yourself so innocent and not having to fake it, not having to act that you are innocent, but really being it. It was a great feeling. And when I did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. I played Raoul Duke, who really was Hunter Thompson. I really knew the character, I felt good in his skin…. I knew what Hunter would have said, how he would have reacted to certain situations. At a certain point I didn't act, I just reacted. Hunter says what he thinks, he doesn't let anyone fool him, that all became very natural for me. In his skin, I felt really good, certain.

And how did you feel in the skin of the pirate Jack sparrow?
Good. It's a role that really pleased me. And it was fun to find the character. It came to me in a sauna (laughs). In that extreme heat, it came to me. I did my work, made notes when I read the script, I was always cooking because of the incredible high temperature and in that heath, Jack appeared.

Through flashes, images, references?
Through all of that. I had a delirium of images! I started to think about pirates in that century, the way they were worshipped buy the average citizen, the normal people. In that time pirates had a real romantic image. I tried to define what they were, and it seemed to me that they were the rock-stars of our time. They were the ultimate rock-stars. They were flattered, they did what they wanted to do, whether that was good or bad, mocking the law, like rock-stars do. After that, I looked for the biggest rock-star of all time. That's Keith Richards, nobody can say any different, he is the greatest. It comes natural with him, he's born with it, I believe that he was a rock-star even before 1963. And he looks like a pirate. So Keith became the main ingredient of Jack Sparrow, my first source of inspiration. But I also looked for others. And I thought about Shane MacGowan, the singer of the Pogues.

Because he doesn't have many teeth and he looks terrible?
Among things (laughs)… A cartoon character also came to mind, for the way he treats others, because he creates his own reality. Whether it is true or not, it suits him. That was Pépé Le Pew. And I added a bit of rasta to all of that to complete the picture.

Why?
Years ago I read some books about rastafari. Why not go in that direction? Especially for the 18th century, where at least a part were rasta. I'm not talking about the religion, but about the dreadlocks (laughs). The dreadlocks represent freedom and anti-conformity, at the same time as purity of the spirit and the body. You don't cut your hair, you don't wash it, you just let it live it's life, it's a way to say "Long live freedom and fuck the world".

When you create a character, you turn to your imagination. But after that, is it a question of instinct, emotion or technique?
To be honest, technique comes on the last place. At first, it's the imagination that feeds my roles, after that emotion in the sense of memories, of feelings. Technique only serves to prevent me from bumping into the decor (laughs).

And to putt your eye out with a sword. You had to learn to fight with a sword and saber for this movie?
Oh yes, that's true, we had lessons in sword fighting. It was… nice, but very exhausting. We had to learn very complicated choreographies for certain scenes. There were two big fighting scenes, of which one lasted for about eight minutes. It seems like nothing, eight minutes, but when you have to do them, when you have to duel like madmen, it's very long! I took a few blows, but nothing serious. Nobody lost an eye, thank god! (laughs) But that's always possible!

You always have to tendency to avoid big budget movies. Of which Pirates of the Caribbean is one. Produced by Disney….
I was very surprised when the people of Disney contacted me for this movies. But the people I met in Los Angeles, as well as Jerry Bruckheimer, acted like real gentlemen. For me, it was like infiltrating the camp of the enemy, making a pact with the enemy, becoming his friend….

Is it the beginning of a good friendship, full of big budget movies…
Uh…, maybe not, no. (laughs)

Because you are considered as a pariah?
I'm not sure that think of me as anything! (laughs) I don't know what they think of me. I believe that some act as if I don't exist anymore, and others have distanced themselves from me: between what I refuse and what I accept, they have lost it. I would love it that they realized that I'm still alive. But that isn't very important, really, as long as I have got work and I do what I want to. My years in "21 Jump Street" where hell, a real prison for me because I didn't have an input in the chapters, because they pushed me in front of the camera with my lines, without asking for my opinion. And when I left there, I had just one idea in my head: make movies that I like. I am thankful for the help I got from "21 Jump Street", but I don't want to live like that anymore. So, as long as I do what I want to and what I love, what I like and I can spoil my children, I'm happy. The rest…..

Don Quichotte and the crossing of the desert.

It is known, Terry Gilliam never does things like the others. But when fait was so stubborn during the attempts to make 'The Man who killed Don Quichotte', you start to ask yourself if a god of cruelty isn't at work again. Tornadoes, bankruptcy ,illness, nothing has spared this cursed production. And the chaos has inspired the 'Unmaking-of', Lost in La Mancha, testimonies.

Prologue
Terry Gilliam: We have written the movie for the main character that's played by Johnny Depp, but we still had to find the ideal Don Quichotte. That took some time, but when we stumbled on Jean Rochefort, we had our man. He's an excellent actor and an excellent horseman.
Jean Rochefort: Terry Gilliam called me on the phone one day, to my surprise. I thought it was a joke. Culturally very well known from Francis blanche, Pierre Dac and Monty Python, it's a world I'm acquainted with and I thought one of my friends was playing a prank on me. He told me that if I accepted to play Don Quichotte, he could finally make the movie he had been dreaming about for ten years. It was a dream, mixed with a bit of a nightmare, since Terry preferred I would express myself in English, which was very hard for me, since like most of the Frenchmen of my generation, I didn't have the subject in school…. And then an affair with a Cuban woman in the 60's, no a Jamaican… (????) To make things short, the case was rather painful.
Johnny Depp: For my character, Toby, strangely enough, I had imagined a kind of human polecat, that's why I have long white stripes in my hair. I was also inspired by a travelling agent I have known for some years, a fascinating and strange guy, everything but sympathetic. He was hyper-normal, passionate about cars, he didn't drink his Martini unless it was prepared a certain way, who didn't go out except with blondes….

The storm
Johnny Depp: The storm we went through on the second day of filming, was experienced as a curse. Black clouds that appeared, a flood of hail that came down and the equipment that washed away, and that all in a dessert! We also experienced a real bombing, since we were in a military zone. Suddenly warfare plains started to bomb the area not that far from the trailers and the set. It was surreal! We were surrounded by smoke and flames, it was war!
Jean Rochefort: Everything went wrong… I remember, the pain was there, in 15 minutes, big hail-stones came down, we took shelter, a terrible wind, water coming down, tornadoes of rain… I was in armor, I locked myself in a car with René Cleitman. We turned on the windscreen wiper and suddenly I some something that resembled a giant pterodactyl in the sky. I first thought it was caused by the fever and the pain. But the immense bird clapped it's wings, and I saw bleu and with white stripes. I asked my producer: "What's that?". He said: "It's the canteen…"
Terry Gilliam: I felt like I was Job: I was being punished and in constant suffering. That apocalypse was in fact a kind of ecstasy for me. I went out in the middle of the storm, I went to a rock that dominated the scene, sat down on my knees, everything had been washed away by the rain, it was a real biblical storm. God was in the middle of vengeance. Everything was ruined, crushed by a hurricane, and when the rain came down, you could say like a waterfall, hail-stones from hell hitting the ground, and I was on that rock and screamed: 'Yes, yes. Come on God, yes, hit me! Unleash your power!' (laughs) And after the storm had left, I went back down, and nothing was left of the scene… The scenery had vanished, as well as the people…

The falling Don
Johnny Depp: When we started filming, we knew Jean Rochefort wasn't in the best condition, but we thought it wasn't too bad. He said he didn't have any problems that prevented him from acted, and for us that was the most important. But it became worse very fast. We were enjoying ourselves like children, saying that it would be a nice film, then there's a setback, a second one, a third one and bam! Finished.
Jean Rochefort: I got an extremely painful pathology during the first seven days of filming, suffering like a martyr while I'm not frightened of pain, I was forced to stop. A tragedy, physical, but also psychological. It was a hard betrayal for me. I knew what kind of don Quichotte I would be, I had prepared myself like for a heavy weight championship, I knew how I wanted to play…. Forty years of being on the job doesn't help you to overcome that confusion. If you have a trick to got out of that, it's that you are no longer a disabled actor. We are very fragile, we're like a piece of blotting-paper, a sort of hybrid creatures, made for fiction, and when that fiction leaves us, you, silly enough, get the impression of having to undergo reality. I came to the conclusion that it is a wonderful job, but one that cause abrasion. When you get the chance to escape in magnificent projects, returning to everyday life - which can be a set-back - is very painful. I thought about the faith of Bosnia, but that was nothing. I'm ashamed but I can't help it! (laughs) I have noticed a feeling of restlessness among the people that know me and love me, for the person that I am in France. And it's true that when a woman of man of my generation runs the risk of disappearing, the audience gets the impression of becoming an orphan and feel personal fear. It's the great Death that's there, that works, that comes near. The death of Jean Yanne (note: a French actor, producer,… that died May 23, 2003) is an example of that. On the street, people often ask me 'how are you?', just to reassure themselves.

The documentary
Jean Rochefort: It's already better since the making-of Lost in La Mancha exists. Since I'm a bit of a snob, a making-of without a movie excites me! (laughs) It's completely monty-python. Of course, I haven't been to see it yet, it's a bit too soon. My illness is at the same time physical and psychological. I don't want to risk returning to the pain. A year after that disastrous filming, it came back when I saw an interview with Johnny Depp, saying on television that he would never return to the movie if it wasn't me that played Don Quichotte. Bam! My pain came back, and I had to stay in bed for four months. Now I'm cautious. I don't want to run that risk again. If I ever see that documentary, it will be when I feel good, really good. I'm afraid to see it. I remember when they were talking about releasing it in the theatres, I was asked what my financially demands would be. I refused everything. I was too tensed about the problem, it was down the line of the sadness that I felt. I was paid by the simple fact that the movie could exist and that my body was responsible for the little tragedy, I didn't want to attach money to it. It's the opposite of a psycho-analysis where you pay to get better!
Terry Gilliam: Today, I still can't watch the documentary. When I watched the rushes, it's been a while now, it took a week for me to recover. But on the other hand, I hate causing sympathy and I hate the way that the media has painted me of as a miserable victim. Isn't it a fact that we were a team embarking on an adventure? It became a tragedy, but I refuse to become sentimental about it.

The case Gilliam
Jean Rochefort: I saw things the shocked me on The Man who killed Don Quichotte. For example, I was very much confused, that they didn't have another solution than to starve the horse more than reasonably acceptable so that it would become the ideal Rossinante. I'm not sure, but I think it died the day after I left. The first days of filming on the horse with such terrible pain in my back, became a terrible memory: the Spanish mean that looked after the horse, ignored the fact that I used to be on a horse for four hours a day during 25 years, put apples on it's back to tempt the horse and make it move. That really destabilized me. And the pain already made me very fragile. I felt afraid. Were we all Terry's accomplices, me who dreamed about it? It was the case with Johnny Depp. From the first scene we did together, I immediately knew it would be magnificent. But Terry, and God knows that I care for him, maybe got me jammed, by his physical desire to be successful not matter what it costs. I'm a kind of attentive humanist. He's almost a predator in his activity. There might have been a few obstacles. I'm not annoying, but I wouldn't be passed by by all those crazy ideas (???), I would react to things that I didn't agree to. All the same it isn't less true that there was a great friendship between the three of us.

Epilogue
Terry Gilliam: I don't want to be finished with this, I want this movie to be made. A lot of things will be different, but the script is too beautiful to just disappear. We will have to find someone that can represent to Don Quichotte, but who can also motivate and reassure the financiers with his name alone.
Johnny Depp: I think of Terry as a friend, and we often talk about restarting with the filming of The Man who killed Don Quichotte. Knowing him, I suspect him of wanting to include one or two disasters of our first attempt in his next effort. In fact, I'm sure about that!
Jean Rochefort: I remember one image: Johnny Depp, world star, arrived at the filming spot. He had a trailer that resembled the cathedral of Chartres, and mine was a lot smaller, maybe even a bit below my standing (laughs) Johnny arrived, saw his trailer, and said: "I don't want it. Go and look for the trailers I always use." "Where are they?", asked the producer, bowing his head. "In London." We were in Spain after all, and he added: "I want the same one for mister Rochefort" (pauses) Nirvana for me! A few days later, I said goodbye to the technicians, overwhelmed by pain, I got into a prolonged car on the back seat, and we left on a terrible road, full of wholes and stones. Night came very fast, and we were driving in the light of the headlights, I hated it, and all of a sudden, crossing the desert of La Mancha, dry , made of little stones and sand, we saw big headlights, really huge. We saw something very much illuminated, with bulbs everywhere. I got up a bit to have a better view: it was an exceptional convoy with our two trailers! In that crazy view, I saw the trailer I never had! Last time, Terry said to me: "I really want to make this movie, but the Don Quichotte I will use, has to be ok by you." Moving, isn't it. I can't get back on a horse, and even if I could, would i do it? It's too big a dream.